Episode Transcript
A note for our listeners: This episode includes descriptions of drug use and gun violence and may at times be too intense for some listeners. If you or someone you love is facing addiction, call the SAMHSA National Helpline at (800) 662-HELP (4357) or visit Sanford Health addiction treatment.
Cat Sonneman:
The hardest part of addiction is believing in yourself. And you shame yourself. You shame yourself every single time. Every single time you fall, you shame yourself, or society shames you. And that’s complete wrong way to go about it, to approach it, to look at it. And lots people don’t realize the certain things they might say are actually making that person feel shame.
Courtney Collen (announcer):
This is the “Health and Wellness” podcast brought to you by Sanford Health. The conversation today is a discussion about addiction and alcohol recovery. Our guests are Cat Sonneman and Sam O’Hern, a licensed addiction counselor at Sanford Health Park Rapids Behavioral Health in Park Rapids, Minnesota. Our host is Alan Helgeson with Sanford Health News.
Alan Helgeson (host):
Thank you for joining us on the “Health and Wellness” podcast. Our topic today is addiction and overcoming addiction, and as we talk about this topic today, first of all, let me tell you, in this story, this is a story where there is joy and hope on the other side of addiction. There is possibility. And to get to that though, we need to start where it all began. For a wonderful person named Cat. Cat, introduce yourself please, and let’s tell us your story, and where does it begin?
Cat Sonneman (guest):
Caitlynn Sonneman, Cat. Well, for me, it was inherited. Like, I grew up in a very toxic, addicted family.
Alan Helgeson:
Give us a behind-the-scenes look at what that was for Cat and your family.
Cat Sonneman:
For me, it was — it was crazy growing up. All I knew was crime, drugs, every single night. Ever since a toddler, I’d always had one like nip of blackberry brandy before bed because I didn’t go to doctors or anything, so I was undiagnosed autistic and stuff. And from very early on you use, you learn to use a crutch just to go to sleep, or calm down, or have your family be able to stand you.
When I finally went out in the world, it was like culture shock. It was nothing. The world, the real world, of what I thought existed and the real world were completely different. Which also drove me into using more drugs, different kinds of drugs, because I was trying to find my way, if you will, in a world that I didn’t know existed.
Alan Helgeson:
In your life, Cat, you talk about being in a family where this was present all the time. Talk about your social group friends. Was that the lifestyle that was around you as well?
Cat Sonneman:
I didn’t have anybody that I would consider friends until I was probably 14 or so. We were really secluded from the outside world because we were always told cops, social workers, they’ll take you away. You’ll never see anybody ever again. So, we were coached and talked to about how to talk to people in the outside world so that they wouldn’t know what stuff really looked like.
Alan Helgeson:
So, beyond the addiction, what sort of feelings did that give you?
Cat Sonneman:
Just alone. I was always alone. Even when I was a kid, I was alone. I’d wake up alone. I still remember the panic of waking up alone and nobody being in the house. Not being able to have friends. Like, my sister was my best friend because she was in the same house. So, just alone.
Alan Helgeson:
Can you share what, maybe, a normal day was like for you? What an average day was like for you as a teenager?
Cat Sonneman:
As a teenager (laugh), I had left the house when I was 14. So, as a teenager, I went down to Florida. I had people who took me in right away, but those ended up being very crooked people, and that’s where my whole criminal lifestyle really took off. So, as a teenager, I was constantly dealing with violence. I was constantly dealing with just everything hectic. The world was constantly spinning. I got shot for the first time. My teenagehood, my first look on the world was very dark, grim place. And I learned right away that nobody could be trusted.
Alan Helgeson:
When did you first realize that what you were living in was an addiction?
Cat Sonneman:
That’s kind of hard to answer because there’s a point in your life where you kind of realize that you’re not in control anymore, that you have an addiction. But it fools you after that, just basically telling you that everybody else is trying to control you, that you know what you’re doing, that you need it.
And so it wasn’t until probably a decade after losing my older kids that I finally realized that I was addicted. And I would say that day would’ve been my older kids’ dad. He used to always leave his back door open for me, and I would come stumbling in there. He was a complete gentleman; he was an older man and I would flop down in his bed, completely out it. And he would get up out his bed and go and sit — lay on the floor to go to sleep in front of his TV.
Well, usually I would come in and out of consciousness, and there’d either be food in front of me or whatever, and he would nurse me back to health, basically, and then I would go out on my own. Well, before I had gone to his house that night, I had put an old, clogged needle in a pop can, threw it in his garbage can. Well, when I was recovering, I had ended up begging him to go out and get that pop can so I could fish out — or cut out — the dang needle, and then I took it apart (laugh) and unclogged it so that I could use it. And, I think that at that point in time I realized, wow, this is bad.
Alan Helgeson:
For somebody that hasn’t gone through this or on the other side, this sounds strange to say this: a person needs to hit rock bottom. Is that really a thing? Is that a truth?
Cat Sonneman:
All somebody needs isn’t to just hit rock bottom. There has to be a whole bunch of stuff that goes into it, because you can hit rock bottom a hundred million times. That’s the definition of being an addict is, or, well, being insane, which is also parallel to being an addict is you’re trying the same thing over and over and over again, always expecting different results. So, you’re going to hit rock bottom multiple times.
For me it was lots of the interventions. People don’t realize the small things they say or the small things they do. Even lots of the cops that I’ve dealt with do not realize probably the lots of the little things that were said that had made a difference over years. These little things matter.
Alan Helgeson:
So, you talk about these little things that kind of add up. My next question was going to be, how did you see it at the time? So, that really isn’t a thing, because for you, it was a number of things over time, but what does it feel like to want to bust out of it?
Cat Sonneman:
Out of addiction? I remember the last several, several times getting high. I would hate every single thing about it. I hated the taste. I hated the smell. I hated the people. I hated the way I acted. I hated — there was not a damn thing that I liked about it. I despised everything about it, yet I still had to use it. It’s almost indescribable, but it’s like being at the bottom of the pit and pulling on a rope, trying to climb yourself out. But every single time you pull on the rope, dirt falls in on you. You bury yourself more and more.
Alan Helgeson:
Was that the hardest part of addiction for you? Knowing and realizing you had this and were trying to climb out?
Cat Sonneman:
The hardest part of addiction is believing in yourself. And you shame yourself. You shame yourself every single time. Every single time you fall, you shame yourself, or society shames you. And that’s complete wrong way to go about it, to approach it, to look at it. And lots people don’t realize the certain things they might say are actually making that person feel shame.
And that shame is going to keep you wrapped up in it. It’s going to prevent you from being able to try and get help because you just get to the point where you’re worthless, you don’t deserve it, you’re always going to be a criminal, once a criminal, always a criminal. Because shame does play a really important part in it. I don’t know. I’ll take a break (laugh).
Sam O’Hern (guest):
You’re doing a great job, Cat. You’re expressing all of this in such a way that feels authentic to your story. And also, I’m sure there’s going to be a lot of people that can relate.
Cat Sonneman:
It’s like people always talk about tough love, and that doesn’t necessarily work. In fact, it can hinder when somebody’s first starting to use because tough love makes you, like, you’re already in a place of some type of mental situation, or emotional situation that you’re not dealing with.
And then somebody comes along and tries the tough love approach, and there’s good ways and bad ways to use it. Just kicking your teenager out or something like that because they’re using drugs is a horrible idea because there’s always going to be a gang or some drug that’s going to take them in.
But at the same time, if somebody I knew was severely addicted to drugs and they were in jail, I would leave them there. As much as I need to say it, I’d leave them there. Because literally the first thing in your mind when you get out of jail is, I need to use. I need to use. I need to use. And the longer you’re in there, the more that fate.
Alan Helgeson:
For somebody that doesn’t understand addiction, I’m going to ask in a different way to help. Can you explain what addiction feels like to someone who doesn’t know or can’t relate?
Cat Sonneman:
It’s like having an idol. It’s like having something that completely controls your life. You do not have your own life anymore. You are not in control of your life anymore. There’s something — it’s like a parasite. Something else is completely in control. And when you try to, like, let’s say compare it to cigarettes or caffeine, someone who drinks caffeine every single day and then they don’t drink caffeine one day and they’re completely out of it. They can’t function; they can’t find anything, they’ve got a headache all those things, and it’s multiply it by a lot.
Because even in addiction, it’s really weird that while you’re high, you might put something somewhere, but then when you’re sober, you can’t remember where you put it. It’s almost like there’s two different brains: the sober brain and the addicted brain.
Alan Helgeson:
Next question I want to move on to, Cat. And this isn’t only about addiction, but whenever somebody’s going through something, there’s always that somebody that says they understand what you’re going through, but they really don’t. Help us from that other side. Someone says to you, I understand what you’re going through.
Cat Sonneman:
When somebody says that, it absolutely pisses you off and upsets you. It is no way going to be looked at as consoling. Even if a counselor tried saying that there is so many people that will flip out on a counselor that I’ve known, that I’ve seen real life, because the counselor had said something along the lines of, I know what you’re going through. And they had no clue.
And then I’ve also met other counselors that didn’t want to tell us whether or not they were ex-addicts or not. And I don’t get the point of that, because for some reason, and I’ve talked to several people in treatments about this, when you know somebody has been an addict, there’s just this familiarity with them that you can’t explain.
Alan Helgeson:
Talking about generational cycles, and you grew up in a family and friend group that this is all you knew, but it came up as breaking generational cycles by wanting to be better. Not only for yourself busting out of this, everything that you knew and grew up into, not only for yourself, but also for your kids, your family. Can you go in and explain a little bit about that?
Cat Sonneman:
Simply, I started out my life doing the complete opposite of everything that my mom used to do, just wanting to be a completely different parent than anything that I had seen. And knowing that my whole entire life was not working for me, everything that I remember, everything that I know is not working for me, and just broke me in my soul to the point where I’m constantly reaching out for things that terrify me because I know all of this stuff. Like, I could get shot tomorrow. I’m like, oh, OK, I know what I’m doing. I’ve been shot a couple times.
But, like, when it comes to the fact that I might be going to college this fall, I’m terrified. I’m absolutely terrified. These are all positive things scare the crap out of me. So, breaking the cycle, I mean, being a cycle breaker, it takes a lot.
Alan Helgeson:
Well, everything you’ve talked about, Cat, pretty confident you’ve got this. Just know that, OK? We want to talk now with Sam. And Sam, why don’t you introduce yourself and how you know Cat?
Sam O’Hern:
Yeah, so my name is Sam O’Hern, and I am a licensed alcohol and drug counselor and a licensed social worker. And I practice out of the Park Rapids Sanford behavioral health location, doing outpatient programming, working with clients in a group setting and individual setting. And I also work within the Hubbard County Jail as well to do assessments and treatment coordination, working to get incarcerated populations the support and help that they want or need.
I’ve been a part of Cat’s journey for quite a while now, and I don’t know, Cat, if you want to chime in at any point, you certainly can, but I’ve been working with Cat for over a year. We originally started outpatient together last year. We were doing some virtual sessions together and in my online group that I had. And I’ve just really, I’ve had the absolute honor of watching Cat blossom through this whole process.
I feel like she has shown up authentically in every space that I’ve gotten to share with her. And I couldn’t truly be more proud of the progress that she has made. And like I said, it’s an absolute honor when you get to watch this for any of your clients. I hold a special place in my heart when I get to be a part of this kind of process.
Photo by Sanford Health
Cat Sonneman:
It makes me feel amazing. But that goes back to, like, one of the last things that I said is that it’s still hard to take praise. Because even praise I’m not used to, and a lot of addicts aren’t used to. And it can almost be uncomfortable, but good. You have something you have to get used to.
Sam O’Hern:
Yeah, it’s a different kind of discomfort, I’m guessing, to sit with. I hope each time you hear it, it sinks in a little more.
Alan Helgeson:
Well, Sam, I want to ask you, are all addictions alike? Talk a little bit about the addiction that Cat has and what makes hers unique?
Sam O’Hern:
Just from my outside perspective, in the time I’ve gotten to share with you, Cat, I feel, like you’ve said, the roots run deep. This is multi-generational. This isn’t just something that you got into in your adult years. This is something that the foundation was really laid out in your childhood and probably even before you were earthside.
There’s a genetic component, and maybe some similarities is that behind every addiction is pain, whether that’s physical pain or emotional pain. And I can speak to almost every encounter that I’ve had. There’s always pain behind that. And I think that Gabor Maté was originally the one to speak to that and be able to safely say that there’s a common thread between all addictions and that pain.
People are unique, just like every client of mine is unique. I think that there’s different drivers behind that pain. There’s different masks that people wear. People are in different places in their journey. Not every addiction is created the same.
Alan Helgeson:
Is there something special about Cat? That her resilience and why she’s doing so well in her recovery?
Sam O’Hern:
Cat has a special kind of hunger. Cat, you have an absolute gift for wanting more information, for wanting to do a deeper dive on anything we speak about or anything that we talk about in group. And I think that curiosity is a superpower for you. I think that that helps to fuel you. And I think that that’s something that is going to carry you through many different seasons of life.
Like you said, you’re starting college possibly soon. And I think that curiosity, that hunger for knowledge, is going to assist you even in college. And I think it’s really helped to carry you through your recovery journey. You’ve always stayed curious with yourself.
Alan Helgeson:
So, Sam, let’s crack open the books here from your education to your clinical expertise. Let’s talk a little bit about addiction and recognizing when things become a concern. Let’s talk about some of those signs and symptoms that people might recognize or I might be able to recognize in myself.
Sam O’Hern:
I tell people this all the time is that we all have a vice. Whether that’s being on our phones too much, whether that’s eating when we get home from a stressful day – that addiction is a continuum. And I think that what I mean by that is it can start out very mild, very innocuous, where you’re maybe reaching for the TV remote more often or you’re reaching for your phone more often. We all have things that release the pressure valve in all of us.
On the other end of the continuum are things that are illegal, things that are dangerous to our own safety or to others’ safety. The thing that I try to keep in mind is — or to relate to my clients or family members is — that when it becomes your orbit, that your world spins around, or it becomes difficult to put that down. That’s when I think there’s just maybe a check engine light that comes on when you notice you’re spending a lot of your time, your finances, your resources. Time is a resource. And I think that when it becomes a main focus, that that’s kind of a, “Hey, what’s going on here?” Something to be curious about, not necessarily judgmental about, but more so curious with.
Alan Helgeson:
So, what can I do? What can somebody do — a brother, sister, a friend? What can we do to help a loved one that we might see struggling?
Sam O’Hern:
I really encourage people, and this is hard when it’s a family member or a loved one, someone close to you, but Cat already did a fabulous job outlining this.
Be curious. Replace that judgment with curiosity as much as you can. Sit and just hold space for somebody. Just listen. I think that our society doesn’t teach us enough how to be a good listener. I think a lot of people have opinions and maybe need to take some time to just listen to somebody that’s struggling.
I think that also respecting that that person that’s struggling is still a human being who needs autonomy, who needs to make their own decisions and their own choices. Forced sobriety isn’t long-term sobriety. Cat spoke to shame and how shame just creates layers of struggle and addiction. And I want to say it’s Brené Brown in one of her books that I read; she has a quote that shame doesn’t create sustained change. Shame just creates really good actors.
Long story short, be curious and not judgmental, and respect wherever that other person is at. Ask for help. You don’t have to be a professional in this. That’s why some of us go to school for this. Ask for help from resources around you, from whoever that person trusts.
Alan Helgeson:
Give us maybe some quick things or guide us. How can we better understand an addiction rather than jumping to that shame thing? And I know that’s not a quick fix, but help us. How can we do that for the long run rather than just the quick fix? Because, you know, you can’t just go, “Do this, and you’re going to be better at it.”
Cat Sonneman:
For me, it’s education in the roots. You got to go after the roots. Like, somebody might walk up to a loved one and say, “What, are you stoned?” Or, “Why are you using that stuff?” Or something along those lines. And accusatory never ever works; it just makes somebody defensive right off the bat. And so if you think somebody’s using, you should probably try and find out the reasons behind it, not focusing on it itself.
Sam O’Hern:
Yes, very well said, Cat. Finding the why. Finding the root ball of the situation is vital. And I think that someone’s not going to let down their guard and tell you why until they feel safe enough to do so. Everyone has a why. Nobody just wakes up one day and decides to use substances or decides to have a behavioral addiction. There’s always a why. It’s fulfilling some sort of need, some sort of unmet need, generally speaking.
Curiosity is just the key. I know I keep saying that like a broken record, but I really think that curiosity, if you can use that and just stay curious. You know, ask someone, “Hey, I noticed that you maybe are smoking more cigarettes, more marijuana, whatever it might be. Are you open to talking about that?” Or, “I care about you, and I just want to hear your perspective on how you feel about this.” Instead of, like Cat said, “Why are you doing this? What’s wrong with you? You were raised better.” None of that works. Better understanding yourself is important too. I think better recognizing your own biases, your own triggers, your own things that make you mad before you work on speaking to that other person is important.
If you or someone you love is facing addiction, call the SAMHSA National Helpline at (800) 662-HELP (4357) or visit Sanford Health addiction treatment.
Alan Helgeson:
Well, at the top of the episode today, I talked about what our episode was going to be about, but I also preface things that this is a story about joy and hope in the other side of addiction for Cat. And Cat, I’m wondering if you could tell us about your life now, how it’s different, and where you’re at in life, and how you’re making a difference to others?
Cat Sonneman:
I’m possibly going to school be a probation officer. I feel like I would be able to understand people and — that were in my situation for so long, better than most. It’s like golden sunrise days. I used to always have a dream about golden sunrise days and just the happiness in it. Like, it’s not all rainbows and sunshine. I mean, there’s a lot of crap that stresses me out. And it’s hard because you got to deal with it without a crutch, but it’s rewarding after a while.
You just — the fact that you have control over how you feel, you have control over yourself, is just amazing. And I never thought that I would ever meet my daughter that was adopted out. Now, I get to see her several times a year. Like, I’ve got all my kids back in my life. For the first time in my life, I actually understand that I’m a separate entity, that I’m my own self, and I’m starting to learn who I actually am, which is big key.
Parents, just let your kids be kids and find themselves, because when you try and put them in a box, that’s just a recipe for not good stuff (laugh). I don’t know, it’s like there’s — for the first time in my life, I’ve got a sight on purpose my whole life. I strive for a purpose even before I knew what a purpose was.
Alan Helgeson:
Cat, you talk about kids and how important they are in your life? And we do want to mention that we’ve had kind of a silent added guest in this episode too. It’s your 1-year-old daughter.
Cat Sonneman:
Yep. Which I actually have custody of, which was never supposed to happen again. I was not supposed to have custody of a baby again. Yeah, she’s doing amazing. They actually just closed my case because I willingly opened up a case when I was pregnant with her.
Sam O’Hern:
You way overcome the barriers that were up even a year ago, Cat. I mean, I just, I can’t speak to that enough. You put in the work for this.
Alan Helgeson:
We’d like to ask you, Cat, what is your encouragement to somebody listening that they themselves or a family member or a friend that may have someone that is struggling? What is some encouragement that you would offer? Because I don’t think that I know anybody that might be more suited to offer some great words of encouragement to share.
Cat Sonneman:
If your loved one relapses, the last thing you want to do is act like it’s the end of the world. Just constantly remind them that it’s getting back up that matters. Your loved one’s been sober for three days, and they come home and they’re high, and they’re upset about it, and they’re crying with you, or whatever. Just reassure them that it’s going to be OK. You’re going to get back up.
It’s the stigma towards mental health and addiction. That is the biggest issue. Not being able to talk about it is the biggest issue. Like, I’ll yell trigger in a store, and it helps me release that. But when people expect you not to do that or look at you funny, holding that in, the fact that you’re having a trigger or something, it just festers.
It’s the stigma between mental health and addiction that is the biggest barrier to people getting better.
Alan Helgeson:
Sam, what would you like to say is encouragement?
Sam O’Hern:
I think I would want to remind someone who is actively in addiction that you are worthy no matter what your past has looked like, no matter the things you’ve done to survive. You are absolutely worthy of better days ahead. If a relapse happens, you can get back up again. If you wind up in jail, you can get back out again. The possibilities are endless, even if it feels impossible.
And for someone who has a loved one struggling, just be kind. And if you are at your wit’s end and you can’t be kind, find someone who can. That person needs support and love more than anything. More than judgment.
Alan Helgeson:
Well said both of you. Any last-minute thoughts that either of you have?
Sam O’Hern:
I just want to add as a counselor that we always say we can’t accept responsibility for our clients’ struggles, and we can’t accept responsibility for our clients’ success. And I just want to outline that any client who does really well in residential or in outpatient or with a support group with AA, NA, nobody else can take the credit for that except them.
Maybe they’ve had a more supportive environment that they’ve had in the past, and that is huge. That can make or break recovery. But really, at the end of the day, it’s the work that they’ve put in day to day throughout their week, throughout their hours of each day, that really counts towards that.
Cat Sonneman:
I’ve got a parting message. One really good thing about the Sanford treatment centers is that they’re more so of like a harm reduction. And I think that that is definitely the approach that all treatment centers should take. When you are having people come in for outpatient and let’s say they’ve been using or something along those lines, they’re looking to be punished. So, they’re either going to skip, pretend like they’re sick, or, while they’re in class, they’re constantly going to be thinking, “Don’t pick me to have a UA (urinalysis) today. Don’t pick me to have a UA today. Don’t pick me to have a UA today.” They’re not going to be concentrating or thinking about what you’re trying to teach them or get down to the bottom of a certain feeling that they’re having. I really do think harm reduction is the best way to go about any treatment center. Let people focus on the information (laugh).
Sam O’Hern:
Yeah. I’m so glad you brought that up, Cat. Because harm reduction, just provide a little education piece on this interview. Harm reduction is a continuum. So harm reduction starts at, you know, someone might be considering cutting down on you, someone might be using in a safer way, using with others instead of by themselves.
And then harm reduction can go all the way. It’s the same continuum. It can go all the way to complete abstinence from substances. So, it’s really cool about the program, like Cat said, is that we support both models of recovery. Both complete abstinence as well as harm reduction for our clients.
And I think that does take away a lot of the stigma and a lot of the shame that people feel is they can show up as they are and we can, we can meet them where they’re at. We don’t have to force them into this mold that they’re maybe not ready for. We can truly meet clients where they’re at and work towards healthier options.
Alan Helgeson:
If you’ve been listening to this episode today on addiction and addiction recovery, there is hope. Remember, at Sanford Health, the best place to start is through your primary care provider. They’re really the quarterback of all things for physical and mental health needs. They can connect you to the right resources no matter where you are, and they will make things happen for you and get you the resources you need.
Courtney Collen:
This episode is part of the “Health and Wellness” series by Sanford Health. For additional podcast series by Sanford Health, listen wherever you hear your favorite podcasts, and on news.sanfordhealth.org.
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